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Robert And Annabelle


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#1 crystal

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:16 AM

Hi all!  This is just a speculative post, looking for opinions.
Okay, so you, I'm sure, all know the story of Annabelle and Robert the Doll.  I'll post links here if you do not so you can do some research.
I've been doing some thinking though, especially after the latest Ghost Adventures where Zak Bagans meets (and touches) Annabelle.

So... the Warrens (Ed and Lorraine) who owned Annabelle and took her from Donna the nursing student, have claimed, as the story goes, that Annabelle is housing a demon or malevolent spirit of a young girl, what have you.  I loved this story- it's macabre, scary, fascinating.  However, lately, I'm starting to doubt.  I saw many stories where the Warrens were proven wrong (Amityville for one), and then I started looking more closely into the original owners of Annabelle.  There is NOTHING but names!  And the man that supposedly mocked Annabelle and died in a crash afterwards... there is no name or evidence to back this up.  More on this in a moment.

Now, if you look at Robert the Doll, there is evidence- actual people, addresses, REAL history and REAL people to back up his story.  AND they won't take Robert out of his casing, even for a fee (as the Warrens will, though they claim she should never be taken out).

Annabelle, who is now in the care of a younger male family member, since Lorraine is elderly and Ed has passed, was recently the center of an episode of Ghost Hunters.  Zak Bagans has just opened a museum, like the Warrens, and wanted to do an investigation in his museum, with Annabelle.  Her caretaker brought her, warned Zak not to touch her (and he does, then says it was an accident... sure), and then... NOW they claim that it's possible Annabelle's spirit has taken residence in Zak's museum!!

Huh... how convenient.

Just my two cents.  I know, I rambled.  Sorry.  Thoughts?

Annabelle: http://www.warrens.net/Annabelle.html
Robert:  http://www.kwahs.org...robert-the-doll
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#2 Vlawde

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 12:51 PM

Despite what was said on social media, I don't think Tony Spera would bring the real Annabelle to Zak Bagans. Nor would he stuff the doll in a little case like that, it could easily damage the doll, since it wouldn't fit without bending it all up. It was just for ratings, and like Zak has been doing lately with a lot of recent shows, using them to get PR for his museum.

Touching the doll was (IMO) obviously set up in advance, with Tony in on it. Lots of bad acting on this episode, worse than the usual "Zak gets possessed" stuff we now see on almost every show. Ghost Adventures is lowering the bar on the paranormal, and perpetuating the lie that almost everything paranormal is demonic.
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#3 crystal

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 02:22 PM

Vlawde... I'm so glad you're still here.
And yes... I feel the same way.
Do you think Annabelle is totally authentic?  I'm not sure anymore...
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#4 Vlawde

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:29 PM

haha thanks, glad to see you're back as well!

Honestly, I don't know. So much has come out about the Warrens that I take everything connected to them with a grain of salt. Annabelle may or may not be a haunted doll, but it makes financial sense for them to keep the story out there so more people will pay to see the museum.

..kinda like Zak! ;)
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#5 kevinscan

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:47 PM

Anybody can say something is haunted or possessed, but this does not make it true, unless there's documented proof of it.
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#6 crystal

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 05:21 PM

****NEVERMIND********

Edited by crystal, 06 November 2017 - 09:04 AM.

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#7 JIMOverSeer

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 06:43 PM

Crystal... I don't think anyone here has said (or knows for sure) that Annabelle is a made-up fictional story created by the Warren's to get attention.

If this happens to turn into a topic bashing the Warren's... then I suggest the member show proof of the allegations or it might be best to close this topic.

#8 crystal

 

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 11:54 PM

Jim, I mean no disrespect.  I love the *story* of Annabelle.  There are plenty of resources that support the Warrens being alleged frauds.  I would think, in the interest of keeping the study of the paranormal respectful that one would want to question things like this and have evidence to support the truth.  If you look at the stories that the Warrens claim to be true, the names they give, there is very little to prove that the people are real aside from what the Warrens have said.
I can't find any information on the nursing student, her fiance Lou, or her roommate aside from names.  When I look up information for Robert the Doll I find pictures, dates, name after name, real addresses, etc.
So, while I *could* provide links to support the Warrens as frauds, what I would like instead, is if someone here could give evidence to support that they are real and truthful.
I'm not sure why that's such a bad subject... I just want the truth and wondered if someone could help?  I know what I said above your post, but I still have doubts both ways.  And from what they said and implied, actually, I do think that they believe it's a possible fake.
This forum, I've thought, was here to help investigate, to find what's valid.  Is that not true?
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#9 JIMOverSeer

 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 01:50 AM

Crystal... as for digging up information.... maybe those involved wished to keep their identity private... and if so, it seems their request was honored. So I would suggest you go to the source for your answers. That would be Lorraine Warren herself or her son in-law,  I feel all that you are going to accomplish here is speculation. And that's when things turn to bashing the Warrens. And that seems to happens about twice a year on these forums.

The Warren's weren't perfect... and i'm sure they made a boatload of mistakes. But they also helped thousands of individuals and families survive a haunting. And I know, many will say the Warren's were in it for the money, well, they never saw it. But yeah, if you count the recent movies, yes, but that was after Ed died and Lorraine was too old to worry about spending much in the way of money.

I'm sorry, but I have way too much respect for the Warrens to allow this to get out of hand here. But trust me, most forums will welcome fraud theory's and speculation and that's fine for them... but I would like to see it go a better direction here. I hope everyone understands.

Crystal... we can discuss this further in a PM if you wish.

#10 EVP

 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 02:30 AM

Crystal, discussing the Warrens will create nothing but controversy, You will find those on both sides, passionately defending or dismissing their journey without resolution. Only you can decide what resonates by weighting your belief or lack there of. I'm personally mixed on this subject but by my own submission as an open-minded skeptic, I live by these words fromt Carl Sagan, 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Edited by EVP, 06 November 2017 - 02:58 AM.

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#11 crystal

 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:00 AM

Thanks, EVP.  Wise words.
Jim, you're the boss, do with this thread what you will.
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#12 JIMOverSeer

 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:53 PM

Crystal... the thread is fine. But like I said, I just want to see it go in a better direction... in other words, a path that doesn't lead to Warren bashing.

View PostEVP, on 06 November 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

Crystal, discussing the Warrens will create nothing but controversy, You will find those on both sides, passionately defending or dismissing their journey without resolution. Only you can decide what resonates by weighting your belief or lack there of. I'm personally mixed on this subject but by my own submission as an open-minded skeptic, I live by these words fromt Carl Sagan, 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Thank you, EVP

#13 Vlawde

 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:43 PM

View PostEVP, on 06 November 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

Crystal, discussing the Warrens will create nothing but controversy, You will find those on both sides, passionately defending or dismissing their journey without resolution. Only you can decide what resonates by weighting your belief or lack there of. I'm personally mixed on this subject but by my own submission as an open-minded skeptic, I live by these words fromt Carl Sagan, 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Agreed. Let's get back to bashing Zak and Ghost Adventures! ;)
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#14 MacCionoadha BeanSidhe

 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:47 PM

View PostVlawde, on 06 December 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Agreed. Let's get back to bashing Zak and Ghost Adventures! ;)

Yes :good: ;)

Edited by MacCionoadha BeanSidhe, 06 December 2017 - 04:48 PM.

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#15 lorddraven2000

 

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:29 AM

LOL poor Zac. I will say that these paranormal shows are making it harder and harder for us serious researchers to get taken seriously.
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#16 LouczarGStudy

 

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:58 AM

View Postlorddraven2000, on 25 April 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

LOL poor Zac. I will say that these paranormal shows are making it harder and harder for us serious researchers to get taken seriously.

So very true!!!

It's so hard for me to discredit or denounce what others have claimed to have happened without walking a mile in their shoes.  We all have our own intuition / opinions based upon our own experiences and often apply those beliefs to other's scenarios to strengthen or discredit their story or experience.  Zac for instance, IMO, is in it for the show and the money.  Many people could be guilty of wanting fame and fortune.  Some will stop at nothing to get it.  Other get thrust into the spotlight and want nothing more but to get away.

I dont know the Warrens and have not heard or seen anything to make me say they are liars.  If super crazy crud was happening to me and my family like the level of what was supposed to have happened to the Warrens...I would want to be left alone about it.
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#17 JIMOverSeer

 

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:20 PM

Well said.

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 12:47 AM

Agree with both of you!
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