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#1 Caesar

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 08:11 PM

I'm sure mst of you have watched the movie "The Amityville Horror" some say its a hoax while some believe it to be true. I beleve it to be mostly true from what the Lutzes say however if people could give me proof that it was a hoax I could easly change my mind. note, even the Lutzes say the Movies isn't 100% true

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Well I guess we will never really know if its really haunted because we never lived there. Big thanks to Doodlebug biggrin.gif

Edited by ceaser, 16 November 2004 - 01:36 PM.

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 08:23 PM

I have been by the house myself. Not scary at all lol. Just a big old Dutch Colonial with a great backyard and a well. Still, I am sure it's not out of the question for there to be a haunting there, with all the DeFeo murders.

#3 Beatlefish

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 09:50 PM

It may not be haunted now, but could Ronald DeFeo have been possesed .I think that part of it could be true. JMO

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 10:37 PM

I agree with HauntedA. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilty that the house could be haunted. Is it as haunted as the Lutz claim? Probably not. The fact that a family was bruatlly murdered there, I think it's entirely possible that the house was at one time haunted. Energies fade, so I think that this one did.

#5 doodlebug

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 04:10 AM

You're welcome ceaser...Good links.. tongue.gif

Welcome to my obsession!!! laugh.gif There is alot that I want to say about the Amityville horror, but unfortunately, my boss is expecting me at work shortly....I'll be on later today and post some of what I've learned over the years, although in no way am I an expert, or even in complete understanding of the story.

Helena and Ceaser, I know that ya'll are waiting to hear about my meeting with George Lutz.  Promise to include that!!  I got very lucky and not only met George, but Mary Pascarelli (sp?), one of the psychics who investigated the house.  Uber interesting....

Before all that, I have a question for everyone.

What is it that you believe?  Not just the haunting/hoax, but what is it about the Amityville Horror that people feel so deeply that multiple websites/forums are devoted to debating the story.  That people will get so angry and upset with others that don't share their views?  What causes this obsession with the story?

Anybody got any ideas????  Cause I sure has heck can't figure it out.  (my husband would definitely like to know!!!)
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#6 IsisoftheGarden

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 04:39 AM

I've never seen the movie sad.gif  (It's on my list of things to do... smile.gif )

But I have watched a lot of specials on it!

I don't really believe the Lutz's.  Although it's possible the house is haunted, they just didn't seem all that convincing (maybe due to editing of "History's Mysteries").

When I watched the show, however, the picture did come into topic briefly.  They had only a couple frames on it!  And whoever was analyzing the house at the time didn't think all too much of it for some reason!  They said it was some of the evidence they had, yet they never sent it to be analyzed.

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 04:57 AM

I have NEVER seen the movie....there are lots of old classics that I havent seen like, pyscho, Exorcist...lots more...

I guess I need to go rent these so I know what you guys are talking about

#8 gwardhome

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 06:52 AM

Given all the the negativity, I certainly beleive the house COULd be haunted and would almost be surprised if NOTHING happened in a house like that at least short term.

I think the exagerations made to sell a book, then those exagerated to sell a movie are the main cause of sceptacism.
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#9 lorddraven2000

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 08:32 AM

I think the movies degraded the reputation of the place and for that reason not much seriousness is given to the haunting itself. I feel it could be haunted but not to the extremes portrayed.

#10 babyjo53

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 08:35 AM

jo gets in the story circle and waits to hear what doodlebug has to say!!!!
Can you tell I taught preschoolers? hehe
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#11 lorddraven2000

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 08:37 AM

I think a lot of times the media tends to abuse a haunting's reputation and in the end you have a place that may or may not be haunted but noone willing to risk the media onslought to find out either way.

#12 rob2661

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 09:27 AM

I think what annoys alot of people about the Amityville movies is the way they make Butch Defeo seem like a bit of a normal teen before he moved into the house.  They failed to mention his heroin addiction and the fact that he was running a theft ring worth several thousand dollars per month.  A junkie and thief murdering his entire family seems alot less supernaturally motivated than an average kid doing the same thing.  I think the whitewash they applied to Butch Defeo in the movies is pretty morally repugnant personally.

#13 rob2661

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 09:30 AM

also the whole incest subplot of Amityville 2?  Where the heckle did that come from? Seemed downright slanderous of a murder victim.

#14 cryptid

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE(rob2661 @ Nov 5 2004, 01:27 PM)
I think what annoys alot of people about the Amityville movies is the way they make Butch Defeo seem like a bit of a normal teen before he moved into the house.  They failed to mention his heroin addiction and the fact that he was running a theft ring worth several thousand dollars per month.  A junkie and thief murdering his entire family seems alot less supernaturally motivated than an average kid doing the same thing.  I think the whitewash they applied to Butch Defeo in the movies is pretty morally repugnant personally.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Granted, the Lutzes may have been a little freaked out by living in a murder house and may have chalked some things up to the supernatural when they shouldn't of, but all in all I think it was a hoax.

As to why people get so upset, perhaps because it's such a well-known story, and many people have grown up believing it a true one. They just can't believe something they 'know' to be true is a lie.

I posted this link on the old GS board, regarding Amityville, the Warrens, and Dr Kaplan:
http://www.torontoghosts.org/amityville.html

Edited by cryptid, 05 November 2004 - 11:15 AM.


#15 Caesar

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 11:33 AM

I think its highly likely that Kaplan instigated the Hoax rumours due to his disgruntledness when the Lutzes threw him off the land. The Warrens were the ONLY investigators to actually enter the property and conduct ANY type of investigation.
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#16 doodlebug

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:01 PM

I'm not even sure where to start with this...There is so much information, so many sides, so much confusion surrounding this that it's unreal.  We could study, research and interview from now until forever and still not really know what happened for the simple fact that we weren't there.

Honestly, until a short while ago, I pretty much believed it was a hoax.  Not by the Lutzs' exactly, but more by Jay Anson and the movie companies.  The Lutz's did not write the book, so I figured that Jay Anson had simply taken a "regular" haunting and expanded on it for a good story.  Most likely, in my opinion, there was a slight residual haunting, but nothing major.  Given all the circumstances of the DeFeo murders, a residual haunting wasn't too big of a leap.

I read through about everything that I could find concerning the hoax.  The more I read, the less sense it made.  Why would this couple purchase a house (with a substantial down payment of 25% or $20,000), then risk it on the possibility that they MAY be able to write a book later on?  Why would this put them into financial difficulty when they had sold two houses, consolidating their payments when purchasing the house in Amityville?  George owned a surveying company that his grandfather had founded, along, I believe with rental property in New York.  These were not destitute people.  As a really, um, frugal, person, this didn't click.  Fame?  They've been laughed at, ridiculed and put down for 30 years.  I wouldn't want to think about what the kids went through.

As I said in an earlier post, I ran across a chat room one night.  In this room was a man called George Lutz.  He talked about the haunting, the repercussions of speaking out, the book and movie, and what really happened.  My first thought?  Yeah, right, this is actually the real guy...After a while, it became apparent that this man REALLY believed what he was saying.  He was making a charitable appearance in North Carolina (about 2 1/2 hrs from me), so I decided to take a ride that night.  A friend and I went to Hickory to attend the seminar that he was giving.  Again, the feeling the feeling that this man was sincere about what he was saying.  Since both of us are smokers, we ended up at the outside ashtray together and had the opportunity to actually speak one on one.  (and they say nothing good ever comes out of tobacco!!)  Surprisingly, we never really even brought up the house.  We chatted about trucks, guns, the haunted trail, and above all else, faith.  He has become a very spiritual person.  The best way that I know to describe him is "nice guy".  The kind of person that you don't mind bringing into your home.  

Also in attendance at the seminar was Mary Pascarelli, a psychic who had originally investigated the house with the Warren's.  She described what she saw and witnessed in the house.  It is her firm belief that whatever inhabits the house is angry, deceitful and demonic.  She told us of seeing the house for the first time.  When the Lutz's stated that they fled the house, they were serious.  Dishes on the table and in the sink, bananas on the countertop, clothes in the laundry room floor.  The rest of the house was neat as a pin.  She spoke of seeing a small boy in one of the rooms (remember, this was before the picture was made)  hooded figures in the hallway, odors that couldn't be explained, areas of the house that she simply could not enter for fear of her own safety.

The slideshow pictures showed the house on the day of the Warren's and Rhine Institutes investigation.  It backed up what Mary had said about the state of the house.  George's lecture on the events of the house were reasonable.  He discussed the book and movie...in a nutshell, the book is close, the movie is stuff.  

Alot has been said about the discrepancies in the book, from hard cover to paperback, even from book jacket to book.  This is another point that never held alot of water with me.  The Lutz's didn't write the book, any mistakes made in it weren't their fault, but the responsibility of the author, editor and publisher.  Would be kind of like blaming Lincoln for mistakes in history books.

Another point that I feel needs to be made.  After 30 years, the kids still maintain that this happened.  Considering the normal ups and downs of family relationships, it's a little odd that none of the kids have came out and said "hoax" in all that time, if in fact that were the case.  My understanding is that Missy still remembers Jodie and still maintains that he could appear in the shape of a pig "as big as a house" if he chose.  Pretty convincing (at least for me) coming from a young woman who is currently a youth pastor.  

Anyway, at this point I'm starting to kind of flitter around now and rambling blink.gif ....
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#17 lorddraven2000

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:04 PM

I have no doubt that something happened there. I just wish it could be taken more seriously. I know of several cases that get no attention after ran through the media machine and that is sad that those places may be real hauntings but the repercutions of investigating them are to bad to go through with.

#18 CarriesGhost

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:45 PM

unsure.gif
Amityville again...its always a hot topic of debate!  

What I can tell you is this.....when I was a student of the Warrens (5years) this of course was a bone of contention with Ed Warren, and he defended his case as often as possible about Amityville.  He pulled out signed documents from the Amityville PD, stating something to the effect that they had eyewitness accounts in the Lutze's house, and that the "hoax" story was to disperse the ever gathering crowds of vandals.  He said that Kaplan was ideed angry at being thrown off the property and had a vendetta against them.  He and Lorraine relayed experiences within the house, Ed having chest pains, Lorraine getting frightening psychic impressions, etc.....blah blah blah.....ok..........
Now I am not a huge Warren fan, as far as taking thier word as gospel for anything, but they did seem very very sincere when talking about this case, and visibly upset about it, more at feeling like this case threatened them so much and no one will believe its authenticity.  But I do think there is SOME truth to Amityville, although its now buried in controversy....I have heard their side of the story enough times, and though they do embellish, I don't think they lied.
cool.gif Don't hate me...LOL!!!!!  I think the house has the right circumstances to become haunted....and from what I have learned, evil presences do feed off of this kind of tragedy, so it could stand to reason.....also evil presences love to be anonymous, and would probably love all of this kaos!!!!!!!!
JMHO!!!!!!!!! blink.gif  biggrin.gif
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#19 Caesar

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 01:01 PM

doodlebug, that slideshow must have been wild.

CarriesGhost, I think both sides have hyped it up big time.

I'm not sure if it was a demonic haunting. the fact that they kept the same death beds in the house could make it very active and I think George said they were followed by the ghosts
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Posted 05 November 2004 - 01:46 PM


I'm beginning to think I should add Amityville to my list of things not to talk about in polite company...you know, like religion, politics, and sex.  tongue.gif

I'm sure everyone involved thinks they're telling the truth.  No matter what the lie, if it's repeated enough it becomes gospel.  Do I think it's true?  No, I don't.  Perhaps they had some experiences, but nothing like the book and certainly nothing like the movies to follow.

As far as the Warrens, I think what they felt is what any psychic might feel if going into a known hotspot.  And my own personal opinion is they're loopy.  Now, I certainly believe in psychic abilities, and I'm pretty amazed when I read about them going into areas blind and coming up with some remarkable details, but I would never take what they say as the ultimate truth.

I was always amazed that the Lutz's kept any furniture, but then I would never have moved into that house after the murders.  I mean, eww, that's some serious bad vibes.





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