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News: Jack The Ripperīs True Identity


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#141 Augustine

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:32 PM

Found this on Yahoo just now...sounds interesting...

Famous 19th century British murderer may have killed abroad
Tue May 3, 9:49 AM ET


LONDON (AFP) - Jack the Ripper, who murdered and mutilated a series of young women in 19th century London, is one of Britain's most infamous criminals, closely associated with the capital's fog-bound back streets.

But in fact the killer -- who was never caught -- might have been a sailor who interspersed his London murders with crimes in other countries, a report said on Tuesday.

The theory, detailed in the Guardian newspaper, is the product of research by retired British detective Trevor Marriott, who attempted to use modern police methods to solve the crimes.

His conclusions, published in a book called "Jack the Ripper: the 21st Century Investigation", challenge the long-held assumption that the murderer was a skilled surgeon as some of the women were disemboweled.

Marriott also says that the location of the killings between 1888 and 1891, in Whitechapel, east London, near the city's then-thriving docks, suggest the murderer may have been a merchant seaman.

The author believes he has even identified the ship Jack the Ripper arrived on, a cargo vessel called the Sylph which docked in London in July 1888, just before the first murder.

It later left for the Caribbean, tying the sailor to a murder in Nicaragua which Marriott believes bears the hallmarks of the same man, in that a prostitute's throat was cut and her body mutilated.

Another crime, in Germany, is also linked to Jack the Ripper by the book.

"The detectives at the time took a very blinkered approach," Marriott was quoted as saying by the paper.

"They were convinced the killer was someone who lived or worked in the Whitechapel area. They completely overlooked the fact that there was a pattern emerging which pointed to the possibility the killer may have been a sailor who only occasionally visited Whitechapel, hence the gaps between the murders."

More than 100 people have been identified as possible Jack the Rippers in many dozens of books produced over the decades, with suspects ranging from a Polish immigrant to Prince Albert, one of Queen Victoria's grandsons.

The killings generated huge publicity at the time, both for their brutality and the letters with which the killer taunted the police, signing himself as Jack the Ripper.

The crimes also helped focus public attention on the appalling living conditions faced by many in the poverty-stricken east of London.



What do you think about this?


Kate


#142 rob2661

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 06:23 AM

QUOTE(Kate518 @ May 3 2005, 09:32 PM)
Found this on Yahoo just now...sounds interesting...

Famous 19th century British murderer may have killed abroad
Tue May 3, 9:49 AM ET


LONDON (AFP) - Jack the Ripper, who murdered and mutilated a series of young women in 19th century London, is one of Britain's most infamous criminals, closely associated with the capital's fog-bound back streets.

But in fact the killer -- who was never caught -- might have been a sailor who interspersed his London murders with crimes in other countries, a report said on Tuesday.

The theory, detailed in the Guardian newspaper, is the product of research by retired British detective Trevor Marriott, who attempted to use modern police methods to solve the crimes.

His conclusions, published in a book called "Jack the Ripper: the 21st Century Investigation", challenge the long-held assumption that the murderer was a skilled surgeon as some of the women were disemboweled.

Marriott also says that the location of the killings between 1888 and 1891, in Whitechapel, east London, near the city's then-thriving docks, suggest the murderer may have been a merchant seaman.

The author believes he has even identified the ship Jack the Ripper arrived on, a cargo vessel called the Sylph which docked in London in July 1888, just before the first murder.

It later left for the Caribbean, tying the sailor to a murder in Nicaragua which Marriott believes bears the hallmarks of the same man, in that a prostitute's throat was cut and her body mutilated.

Another crime, in Germany, is also linked to Jack the Ripper by the book.

"The detectives at the time took a very blinkered approach," Marriott was quoted as saying by the paper.

"They were convinced the killer was someone who lived or worked in the Whitechapel area. They completely overlooked the fact that there was a pattern emerging which pointed to the possibility the killer may have been a sailor who only occasionally visited Whitechapel, hence the gaps between the murders."

More than 100 people have been identified as possible Jack the Rippers in many dozens of books produced over the decades, with suspects ranging from a Polish immigrant to Prince Albert, one of Queen Victoria's grandsons.

The killings generated huge publicity at the time, both for their brutality and the letters with which the killer taunted the police, signing himself as Jack the Ripper.

The crimes also helped focus public attention on the appalling living conditions faced by many in the poverty-stricken east of London.

What do you think about this?
Kate

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Yikes, now we just have to add another 100 or so suspects to the list.  (Actually I don't know how many men it took to run a cargo ship back then, but I assume it took more than it does now.)  

In a way it would explain why prostitutes might be more willing to wander into some dark alley with a sailor than with a resident londoner.  "He can't be the Ripper, his ship just got into port."


#143 cryptid

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 06:08 AM

They could very well have something there...

#144 Lawgiver

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 07:46 AM

Interesting, I would like to see other crime scene documentation before I jump to a conclusion. I thought they had already had some sailors as suspects and dismissed them for some reason or another. I'm re-reading Philip Sugdens book and he goes into something like this but I havent gotten to that yet.





#145 Jessica

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE(cryptid @ Mar 17 2005, 10:41 AM)
I've read this theory-'Jill the Ripper'-and yes, there are female serial killers. But given the ferocity of the attacks, it's almost 100% certain JTR was a him, not her.

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Woman are just as capable as men of commiting heinous, disgusting crimes.  This is sexist against men by claiming they are more violent than women, and it's sexist against women by claiming they are incapable of heinous violence.

Both genders are equally capable of commiting the most vile and evil acts, and I am a little offended that you would caviliarly dismiss that JTR was a female because of some supposed inability to be evil that women possess.




On another note, I think the royal doctor being the killer is the most plausable.

Also, as to the painter who had an operation, I heard that he had a "hole in his danglies" which sound like a medical condition called hypospadias, where the "hole" is in the wrong place.  Laughing about how funny it is that he may have had surgery to correct this without anesthesia is both disgusting and offensive, as well.


Now, count down till this post is deleted.

Edited by Jessica, 05 May 2005 - 01:42 PM.


#146 rob2661

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE(Jessica @ May 5 2005, 01:38 PM)
Woman are just as capable as men of commiting heinous, disgusting crimes.  This is sexist against men by claiming they are more violent than women, and it's sexist against women by claiming they are incapable of heinous violence.

Both genders are equally capable of commiting the most vile and evil acts, and I am a little offended that you would caviliarly dismiss that JTR was a female because of some supposed inability to be evil that women possess.
On another note, I think the royal doctor being the killer is the most plausable.

Also, as to the painter who had an operation, I heard that he had a "hole in his danglies" which sound like a medical condition called hypospadias, where the "hole" is in the wrong place.  Laughing about how funny it is that he may have had surgery to correct this without anesthesia is both disgusting and offensive, as well.
Now, count down till this post is deleted.

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I don't know that the argument against a jill the ripper is that women are incapable of being as evil as men so much as the method of killing would be statistically unusual for a woman.  Most female serial murderers used poison.  

Of course,Countess Bathory,probably the most notorious of female serial killers,did in fact use knives as well.

#147 Lawgiver

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE
On another note, I think the royal doctor being the killer is the most plausable.


I'm curious as to why you think that ?



QUOTE
Also, as to the painter who had an operation, I heard that he had a "hole in his danglies" which sound like a medical condition called hypospadias, where the "hole" is in the wrong place. Laughing about how funny it is that he may have had surgery to correct this without anesthesia is both disgusting and offensive, as well.



I dont remember anyone laughing about this. Walter Sickert had an Anal Fistula. Patricia Cornwell made some while assumptions and saying it was a Penile Fistula. Not only is there no medical proof of this, she concluded that he would be impotent and could not have children which he did have a son.


#148 Lawgiver

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 08:58 PM

Been doing some reading. The ship the Sylph was in Barbados until the 27 Nov 1888 and left again for Barbados 2 days later. MJK was killed on 9Nov 1888. So either Marriott is not including her as a victim or the dates arent adding up. Will look into it more tomorrow.





#149 silenteyes76

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 01:59 AM

I think that the whole lure of Jack The Ripper is that we will never know who dunnit!  It's almost a cult thing to certain friends of mine, and they will be delighted that Cornwell has added further intrigue to the case.

At the end of the day it's done to sell books, regardless of how accurate the basis for the publication.  I read a book a while back that proposed that Dr Crippen never actually killed his wife and it was his mistress!  Good book but not sure about the evidence for the story!

#150 Lychandope

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 02:03 PM


ooh--always fun to read up on the different theories surounding Jack... i didn't see this link put up yet, which i found to be an interesting short read... it lists possible suspects (a few of them mentioned in these posts)--and a few others who were not--and a quick blurb about each... mebbe it'll help confirm, debunk, or confuse things even more...

http://www.crimelibr...x_1.html?sect=1

anywho--who do i think Jack "really" is...? i've no idea... but dang if it isn't fun trying to find out...  whistling.gif

hmm--i seem to have botched the link, huh... copy n paste works... or i could just fix it...  tongue.gif

crime library on jack

Edited by Lychandope, 31 May 2005 - 02:35 PM.


#151 TomCat

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 04:03 AM

I haven't been here for a while so maybe this was already discussed. (I'm also too lazy to re read this whole topic. tongue.gif) But a few weeks ago I downloaded the documantary Sherlock Holmes - The True Story. It was about Dr. Joseph Bell. Conan Doyle's old teacher, model for Sherlock Holmes and together with Edmund Locard and C.J. van Ledden-Hulsebosch one of the pioneers in Forensic Science. The doco told the story of this real life Sherlock Holmes, and the cases he worked on. The last case was that of Jack the Ripper. Bell studied the case and the evidence that was collected and pointed the finger at the person who he thought was Jack the Ripper. The only problem is that nobody knows who Bell had in mind as the Ripper. The document in which Bell wrote down the name of his prime-suspect was lost. For some strange and for me unknown reasons nobody ever asked what have happend with this document. Not even Bell himself. Or more important ask Bell who's name he wrote down.

I just want to make clear that Bell wasn't just any doctor. He was the first forensic pathologist as we know them today. With him forensic science made a giant leap forward. He was lightyears ahead of his time.



And I have added something interesting about good 'ol Jack to my fictional library of crime. A Study in Terror. A story with the greatest detective from the 1800s, Sherlock Holmes, and the greatest detective from the 1900s, Ellery Queen. Both sleuth's go one on one with the most noturious killer in history. Jack the Ripper.

Anyone interested in the synopsis of this book?

#152 Ghost Hunter Moon

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 08:37 AM

This is awesome!! biggrin.gif I love anything about Jack the Ripper (especially the PC game  happy.gif ) This is an awesome find, thanks!
"Why is a raven like a desktop?"

#153 vaghostgal

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE(cryptid @ Nov 6 2004, 05:54 AM)
I read this book about a year ago. It was interesting but I don't think Sickert was JTR. Anyone who would do what Jack did to another human being couldn't function normally in the society Sickert did. Granted WS was not exactly Mr Wonderful and had "issues", but I don't believe they included disembowelling prostitutes.

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But the thing about serial killers is that they do function normally in society. Ted Bundy is a great example. He had a girlfriend with whom he had normal sexual relations, attended law school, was the perfect boy next door. I think the fact that they are able to appear normal is what makes it all so scarey and fascinating. Their sociopathic tendencies do not permit them to feel empathy for others, so it's easy for them to carry on about their daily lives.

Sorry - one of my favorite topics. My undergrad is in Criminal Justice and it was always my intent to become a forensic psychologist. Until that happens you all just have to put up with my ramblings.........

#154 kazza

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 03:48 AM

hi i think with all the mediums and  spirtulist one of them must know who he was if they have the gift them why not try to contact him.
as so another thought what about if the bodies were dug up there must be some dna on them and on the letters and other evidence that was found.
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#155 Raskar Kapak

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 05:42 AM

QUOTE(kazza @ Aug 26 2005, 01:48 PM)
hi i think with all the mediums and  spirtulist one of them must know who he was if they have the gift them why not try to contact him.
as so another thought what about if the bodies were dug up there must be some dna on them and on the letters and other evidence that was found.
kazza

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Would you try to contact such a dark spirit ? I know I wouldn't do it for all the gold in the world !

Spirit contact is not like calling someone on the phone you know.

#156 Augustine

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 05:01 PM

I guess Patricia Cornwell has had enough of the naysayers.  Here's an article I found online this evening:


Author out to prove identity of London's Jack the Ripper
Sat Aug 27, 3:05 PM ET

LONDON (AFP) - American crime writer Patricia Cornwell published a full-page letter in two British newspapers Saturday to defend her theory on the identity of Jack the Ripper, one of Britain's most infamous serial killers.

Beginning, "Dear Readers," Cornwell hit back at experts who have knocked her claim that impressionist painter Walter Sickert was the notorious east London murderer.

Cornwell announced she will present fresh evidence in an updated version of her 2002 book, "Portrait of a Killer -- Jack the Ripper: Case Closed", due out next year.

Jack the Ripper, who savagely mutilated and killed a string of prostitutes in 1888, was never caught.

Her advertisement came in response to an article in The Independent newspaper on Tuesday, contesting her theory.

According to The Independent, Cornwell, whose multiple best-sellers have made her a fortune, spent two million dollars (1.63 million euros) buying 32 Sickert paintings and his desk to test for DNA.

She also paid for DNA tests on letters claiming to be from the Ripper.

In her open letter published in The Independent and The Guardian, each costing 10,000 pounds (14,650 euros, 18,000 dollars), Cornwell accused her critics of not presenting evidence backing up their claims.

"My investigation is far from an obsession but an opportunity to provide a platform for applying modern science to a very old, highly visible case in the hope that we might learn something that could help solve modern crimes," she wrote.

"Every time new evidence presents itself -- fingerprints, DNA, or documents -- I feel I owe it to both the victims and the man I accuse of this terrible crime to investigate that evidence."

"While I do believe that Jack the Ripper was the artist Walter Sickert, I think that the case is far from closed," she said, contradicting her book's title.

"I challenge my critics to back their refutations and attacks on my findings with scientific, investigative and historical fact."


The Article


Since I haven't read the book and am in no hurry to, can somebody tell me--what did the DNA tests conclude?  (If anything.)  Does Cornwell claim that DNA actually proves Sickert was the Ripper?

Regardless of the validity of her conclusions, at least nobody can say Cornwell doesn't stand by her claim.  I mean, 2 million dollars...whew!

Kate


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Posted 31 August 2005 - 12:35 AM

I haven't read the book either Kate, so I can't help you out. sad.gif Sorry!!
I ws just wondering if anyone happened to catch the JTR show that was on History Television last night? It was very interesting and in the end the came up with someone different than Cornwell. I wish I could remember his name!


#158 Lawgiver

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE
In her open letter published in The Independent and The Guardian, each costing 10,000 pounds (14,650 euros, 18,000 dollars), Cornwell accused her critics of not presenting evidence backing up their claims.


Hello, kettle. She hasnt presented evidence either. Patricia Cornwell has proven that Walter Sickert may or may not have written some of the hoax letters that have been proven to be fabrications. Of course the DNA evidence she had is over 100 years old, has not been sealed, highly contaminated and would match approx 40,000 people in England alone in 1888.





#159 Sunniva

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 08:31 AM

Exactly, Lawgiver. She may or may not have proven it. In the book she can't even really defend her own theories.

Walter Sickert was somewhere in France (don't remember where) during some of the murders. But she thought that was an unimportant detail.

She may really believe that she is right. But I wasn't convinced by her arguments at all.

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:36 PM

Found this interesting article today, and I thought that you all might enjoy it. Let me know what you all think:)

JTR: The Face of a Killer