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11yr Old Jailed On Double Murder


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#1 lorinisapirate

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:32 PM

http://kdka.com/loca...r.2.941578.html Link not working.... but he did get moved

this is sick. the kid shot his dads gf killing her and her unborn baby. they think he was planning it for awhile too.

he's locked in an adult jail right now and people are debating weather to move him to a juvy center or not.

Edited by KlaineyGStudy, 19 March 2018 - 04:42 AM.
update


#2 xannux

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:19 PM

We had an 11 year old daughter of a family friend commit suicide a little while ago.  She came from a good home with no obvious reason for her actions.  Seriously, without making light of this situation... who knows what an 11 year old is actually thinking or his motive for doing such a horrific thing.  Very sad. Everyone should hug their kids today.

#3 xjadedx

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:46 PM

What I find completely disturbing about this story is that the rifle he used was a "youth" model 20-gauge shotgun.

YOUTH MODEL! "Designed for use by children".  Why in God's name are weapons designed for use by children?

Obviously, so they can shoot their step mother and unborn sibling.

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#4 Caniswalensis

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:43 PM

QUOTE(xjadedx @ Feb 23 2009, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What I find completely disturbing about this story is that the rifle he used was a "youth" model 20-gauge shotgun.

YOUTH MODEL! "Designed for use by children".  Why in God's name are weapons designed for use by children?

Obviously, so they can shoot their step mother and unborn sibling.


I understand your horror at this tragic story and of course I agree that it is a terrible thing.  But I think you may be letting your strong feelings color your thinking.  I do not mean that as a put down.  it is an easy thing to do, and if it says one thing about you, it is that you are a sensitive & caring person.

There are legitiate reasons to make youth model guns.  Shooting sports can be a wonderful hobby for the whole family to enjoy together.  There are numerous events held with a wide variety of fun and exiting competitions in various age catagories.  However, much like a fourwheeler or a pair of boots, there is no such thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to guns.  A child should not be using a gun that is too big for them as it can be dangerous to themselves or others. Not just in the obvious ways, either.

The key thing with any kind of gun ownership is responsibility.  Obviously, children should only have access to the firearms as part of a structured family activity.  Everyone, no matter what age they are should take a course in gun safety and have some additional instruction as needed in the use of any given type of firearm.  Everyone should learn the proper respect & handling of a gun and show that they are up to acting responibly before being entrusted with a gun of their own.

Lack of responsibility on the part of the parents is almost always at the root of these child+firearm tragedies.  In this particular case, no matter how responibly the boy had behaved in the past, his shotgun should have been kept in a proper gun safe that he could not get into.  At that age, a kid just does not have the capacity to take sole responsibility for a firearm.  

Regards, Canis

#5 xjadedx

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 07:15 PM

Canis,

No wonder you were chosen as a moderator!  You have a great way with words.

I must admit that my post was made out of pure shock at the story.  I never took into consideration that youth model guns are used for sport/hunting, and I absolutely agree that a child of that age does not have the capacity to take on the responsibility of a firearm.

I read on CNN that they are investigating on possible child abuse in the family.

I guess it's just really sad that the woman was 8 months pregnant.  My sister lost a baby at 38 weeks pregnant, so I guess it hits close to home. (Although I'm thankful it was from natural causes).

Thanks so much for your reply, and I will try to think out the situation before I type! (I've always been an over-reactor) blush.gif

Sam

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#6 OffDutyCop

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 07:46 PM

I believe that too often, we justify the actions of children by saying that they "didn't know any better". In this case, if the boy "owned" a youth model firearm for hunting, and knew how to operate it, then he almost certainly had been hunting before, or had an understanding of the firearm, gained through usage. In that case, the child almost certainly knew what what consequences would be inflicted on the woman through his actions, and he most likely had an understanding of death, even if his only experience with such a subject WAS gained through hunting with his father.

With that being said, sadly, this appears to be a growing trend. More and more, children are appearing as the offenders in a variety of crimes, including acts of horrific violence. The problem we face now, is, how do we hold them accountable?
"In each of us, there are two sides at war....the good and the evil. The fight rages between them all of our lives, but one of them must conquer. In our own hands lies the power to choose. What we want most to be, we are. " ---Dr. Henry Jekyll

#7 Caniswalensis

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE(xjadedx @ Feb 23 2009, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Canis,

No wonder you were chosen as a moderator!  You have a great way with words.

I must admit that my post was made out of pure shock at the story.  I never took into consideration that youth model guns are used for sport/hunting, and I absolutely agree that a child of that age does not have the capacity to take on the responsibility of a firearm.

I read on CNN that they are investigating on possible child abuse in the family.

I guess it's just really sad that the woman was 8 months pregnant.  My sister lost a baby at 38 weeks pregnant, so I guess it hits close to home. (Although I'm thankful it was from natural causes).

Thanks so much for your reply, and I will try to think out the situation before I type! (I've always been an over-reactor) blush.gif

Sam


Hi Sam,

Thank you for the nice compliment.  

You should not feel bad about your post at all.  It was a very shocking story and I am not sure it is possible to overeact to something like this.  I think that it takes all kinds of people with all kinds of reactions and approches to life to make a great forum like we have with Ghost Study.  So you just keep typing what you think and everything will be great here!

Regards, Canis

#8 nothing lasts forever

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 07:46 AM

I don't think the child should be locked up in an adult prison, where rapist, child molesters are also locked up. However, this child did end two lives and needs to be punished. Way to many "young offenders" are getting off with a slap on the wrist. Back in 2002 a friend of mine was murdered by three people, 1 adult 2 minors, the adult got 25 years, one of the minors got 10 years plus time served, the other got 18 months plus time served. wheres the justice in that? Not that any amount of time could truely fix or even mend such a horrible crime.

My personal opinion is, if you do the crime, you do the time. If it is proven this child killed out of cold blood, and not in self defense, then he needs to be delt with the same way as an adult would be, due to his age he should be put in juvy until he is legally an adult, then be punt into an adult prison.

It's a sad case all around, two people died and for whatever reason a child pretty much just messed up his life. And the husband/father, can't begin to imagine the crud he's feeling.

Edited by nothing lasts forever, 01 March 2009 - 07:48 AM.

The key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself, and if you dont have the tools to do that, then you're going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away.

#9 Amethyst

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 05:22 AM

Why is the nation shocked that this kid did this?  We have become a violent society for the most part.

Look at the violent video games kids play and all those slasher movies and things like Jason, Michael Meyers, Saw, Texas chain saw....etc.  Kids are exposed to shows on TV as well.  They have become immune to violent, blood and gore.

Remember Columbine?  It was televised.  The moment something horrific happens the media is all over it and showing it on national TV.

That is why I do not watch the news or read a paper.  It is disturbing.

I watch Law & Order and they had and episode called Killerz.  It was about this 10 yr old innocent looking littel blonde girl who was a sociopath killer of little boys.  Her name was Jenny and she talked an older girl, 13, into luring a little boy out of his house and then beating him with a rock.  The one psychologist said she needed to go to the state mental ward but another one said she could be treated as an out patient.  It made my blood run cold.  She also murdered a neighbor's cat.

I also worked as a juvenile treatment aide in a school for out of control kids.  We had to do state training to learn self defense and how to restrain a kid and take them to the floor.  I was shocked I had to do that, but once I got in the class room I understood why.

These were 9 to 13 yr olds.  They would attack each other, attack teachers and some were just psychos.  I had a desk tossed at me.  I was also left in the cafeteria with over 40 kids ALONE and a fight broke out.  I had to go to the ER for injuries.

Some kids have home lives you and I cannot comprehend.  Dad's in prison, mom's a crack head prostitute, they live in filth and they learn to survive as best they can.  I could tell you horror stories from working in that school and also at social service making home visits.  The things I saw were horrible.

I just wonder what pushed this kid to do this?  I am not making excuses for him and maybe the kid was just a punk, but you never know.  Whatever the case, he is damaged goods from here on out.

I hate to harp on being old, but growing up in the 50s this kind of thing was unheard of.  Lucy and Desi slept in twin beds.  Fred and Wilma were the first televised couple that slept in the same bed and they were cartoons.  Guys got shot in all the old Westerns but we only saw them grab their chest and keel over and they were the "bad" guys.  There were no cuss words on all 3 channels!  th_sarcastic_blum.gif

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#10 JeepersCreepers

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 10:16 AM

QUOTE(nothing lasts forever @ Mar 1 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
then he needs to be delt with the same way as an adult would be, due to his age he should be put in juvy until he is legally an adult, then be punt into an adult prison.


This is what I thought too. He needs mental help too. But not lightly! No outpatient crud. He needs help but remained locked up. I don't care how "good" he is lockdown.

QUOTE(Amethyst @ Mar 2 2009, 05:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was also left in the cafeteria with over 40 kids ALONE and a fight broke out.  I had to go to the ER for injuries.


WHY in Heaven's name would they leave you ALONE with 40 whacked kids?? My gawd.

#11 Amethyst

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 04:57 AM

That is why I hate smokers....I used to be one.  The 2 others that were supposed to be in there with me...2 MEN...decided to sneak out for a smoke and left me alone.

We had one kid that was extremely good looking, but psycho.  He would be sitting in his chair calm one second and the next jumping up and trying to kill another student.  He should have been in a mental ward.  This frail kid tried to tackle about a 180 lb black kid that was built like a football player.  I got between them and got slammed on the table.  I injured my shoulder and broke a finger.

I opted to restrain the black kid as I could reason with him and pull him away.  He was bigger, but he wasn't nuts and dangerous like the other one.  We had to search for weapons daily on these kids.

When all was said and done they didn't ask me if I was ok or anything.  They just said you need to go home and change your clothes because OSHA says you can't have blood on you.  The black kid got punched in the face and I had blood on me from that.

Needless to say, I quit the next day.  I loved the job because it was a challenge, but I lost my nerve and got scared and if you show fear it's all over.

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#12 Sly-Spectre

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:44 PM

We can argue the many factors on this and there's quite a few factors. We can argue the parent's have a responsibility they missed. But we don't know if they thought their kid was knowledgeable enough to handle a firearm. Me personally I was taught to use a gun at a very young age but they also taught me why you would need one and that even when it's justified, there are still reprecussions for taking a life. Also we can't say desensitization to violence was the sole issue, mainly because there is no sole issue. This is a tragedy with many layers. In the end we can only assume the kid knew what he was doing and until we can get the kid to confess the truth, we can only make knowledgeable guesses as to why he would do it. Maybe there was a history of abuse. Or maybe the kid was afraid to lose attention. Or just possibly, it could be related to an old thread in these forums asking if kids can be born evil.

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#13 earthlydelitesGStudy

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:47 AM

this is a scary thought isn't it... and so many more cases like this have happened since.
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#14 KlaineyGStudy

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 04:36 AM

Maybe it is because they get out 7 years later :wallbash:

Update

Jordan Brown, 18, set free from juvenile confinement 7 years after killing
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#15 LouczarGStudy

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 05:34 AM

View PostAmethyst, on 02 March 2009 - 05:22 AM, said:

Why is the nation shocked that this kid did this?  We have become a violent society for the most part.

Look at the violent video games kids play and all those slasher movies and things like Jason, Michael Meyers, Saw, Texas chain saw....etc.  Kids are exposed to shows on TV as well.  They have become immune to violent, blood and gore.

I hate to harp on being old, but growing up in the 50s this kind of thing was unheard of.  Lucy and Desi slept in twin beds.  Fred and Wilma were the first televised couple that slept in the same bed and they were cartoons.  Guys got shot in all the old Westerns but we only saw them grab their chest and keel over and they were the "bad" guys.  There were no cuss words on all 3 channels!  style_emoticons/default/th_sarcastic_blum.gif

Amethyst

Amethyst has nailed most of the (IMO) cause with her description.  Over the top violent games like GTA.  So many movies and series that sensationalize the act of committing such horrendous acts.  I dont know if it desensitizes kids or drives them to crave the next thrill?  

My son and I were playing a game on the xbox when he was ~10 years old.  The whole premise of the game was to crash your vehicle into other vehicles in an intersection that caused more accidents.  The more accidents you caused the more points you got.  He and I played for an hour or two before we had to go to town.  when he and I drove to town, I caught myself actually thinking about the domino theory if I had plowed into an intersection.  I was so shocked and amazed that I could have such thoughts.  I threw the game away when we got home.
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#16 Vlawde

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 07:03 AM

I'll respectfully disagree about the connection between videogames and violence. When I was little, it was common to play cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, and war. We had toy guns and shot each other 'dead' all the time, not to mention watch violent cartoons. Most of my generation didn't grow up being violent criminals.

There's something else going on that's affecting our culture as a whole.
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#17 MacCionoadha BeanSidhe

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, I watched all those violent shows, movies and played video games. For example I watched: 'The Three Stooges', 'Bug's Bunny', 'Tom & Jerry,' and et al. You don't see me going around trying to killing people. The reason is my parents taught me from right & wrong and also the difference of what is and isn't reality. They don't teach children those things anymore. Not to mention, there's all that crud that's in the food and milk. Have you noticed how tall young people are these days, six foot elementary school children, seriously?  I think all this crud they're eating is warping their brains and causing them to make too much hormones and testosterone.

Edited by MacCionoadha BeanSidhe, 19 March 2018 - 03:22 PM.

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