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News: Jack The Ripperīs True Identity


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#21 cryptid

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE(HelenaHandBaskettGStudy @ Nov 15 2004, 03:34 AM)

There is no doubt that JTR would have had to have been one severly sick and twisted individual.

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Exactly the reason why Sickert, Sir Gull, Prince Eddy, Maybrick, etc couldn't have been JTR~whatever their hangups, they were nowhere near disturbed enough to have killed the way JTR did.

Smudge, thanks for the link. It's a very concise summing up of the JTR case.

Edited by cryptid, 15 November 2004 - 11:52 AM.


#22 boobookitti

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 11:48 AM

I read this book. I think Patricia Cornwell made a really good case with all of the evidence that she found. It was a great read!

Hey, I guess the only person that will know who JTR really was....is JTR!!

#23 Smudge

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 11:53 AM

I am currently reading  "An Evil Love" the story of Fred West who murdered many young women with the aid of his wife in some instances.

He led what is described as a normal day to day life, but at the same time committed many many murders over a 30 year period.

Of those many people 1 was his wife, 1 his biological daughter and 1 his stepdaughter.

The book has the original police transcripts quoted as the author had access to them all., and believe me, many time I have had to put the book down as it has been extremely hard to read.
He was classified by the author as Evil... and yet he carried on a supposed normal life in all that time he was murdering people.
his personality was such that he was able to lure these girls to thier deaths.

So In my opinion, I think Maybrick could well have been responsible, as could many others.

I fully respect all the arguments here, just wanted to add my little bit.

deb

Edited by smudge, 15 November 2004 - 11:55 AM.


#24 Guest_HelenaHandBaskettGStudy_*

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 12:13 PM

Deb: was this the story of the husband and wife from the UK? Was one of the daughters buried in the garden? If so, then I completely know which story you are talking about. These people were severly sick, but they got away with what they were doing for a long time! Mostly because there children were too afraid to come forward.

I guess with all the raving that people are doing about this book, I'm going to have to read it. I love Cornwell's books!


#25 Smudge

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 01:59 PM

Hi Helena,
yes that was the story Fred and Rosemary West 25 Cromwell... I have read almost everything about the case, as I love true crime books.

This man was killing people(12 definate known victims) from a very early age, and went on doing so for many years. He was only caught as one police officer refused to give up on a hunch.
now it does not bear thinking about what may of happened had she not pursued her case.

The book I am currently reading basically made me feel physically sick, when he described to the police how he disposed of his daughter. I will obviously not go into detail here, but just that one episode, without all the others he committed made me realise that this is one really sick man, not sick as in ill, sick as in evil.

Yet as evil as he seems to have been he still managed to use his charm in luring young ladies to thier untimely and tragic deaths.

the sad thing is... you never know who you could be living amongst....

The book I am reading is

  An Evil Love by Geoffrey Wansell

Sorry gone off topic back to the Ripper

Edited by smudge, 15 November 2004 - 02:00 PM.


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Posted 15 November 2004 - 02:05 PM

Thanks for getting back to me Smudge. I saw this on A&E about 2 months ago. those 2 were definately sick and twisted!!

And now back to our regularly scheduled topic! Sorry for hi-jacking your thread Sunniva!


#27 Lianachan

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 12:03 AM

QUOTE(smudge @ Nov 7 2004, 01:42 AM)
I love anything to do with the Ripper case. I read the Ripper Diaries, and believe them to be authentic.
........
In my view Maybrick was the Ripper.

Deb
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I have the Ripper diary too, and at first read I felt it was likely to be genuine.  However, there are many anachronisms in the text and police forensics determined that the handwriting had been altered to add Victorian flourishes.   Even worse -  the accounts of the murders appear to have been taken from the newspaper reports, as they describe many of the innaccurate details they contained.  For example, when the Ripper diary describes the scene of Mary Kelly's murder, it says that various parts of her body were strewn all over the room, that her severed breasts were placed on the bedside table and that the killer took the key of the room away with him. None of these things are true.

Worse yet, Michael Baratt, the man who "found" the diary, confessed in 1995:

"I, Michael Barratt,  was the author of the original diary of 'Jack the Ripper' and my wife, Anne Barrett, hand wrote it from my typed notes."
I apologise unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice. I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

#28 Dire Wolf

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 11:41 AM

I would have to agree with the concensis that we will never know.The amount of evidence we have now is just not enough, and it's not like we will really get anymore. Short of someone finding a written confessions, and even then the odds are it would be dissmissed as little more the a hoax.

But dispite all that, and the grewsomeness of the crime. It is still one of the most interesting murder mysteries you can look at. And everyone has their own suspect.
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"The warrior who acts out of honour cannot fail. His duty is honour itself. Even his death – if it is honourable – is a great reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

#29 JeepersCreepers

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE(cryptid @ Nov 15 2004, 11:43 AM)
Exactly the reason why Sickert, Sir Gull, Prince Eddy, Maybrick, etc couldn't have been JTR~whatever their hangups, they were nowhere near disturbed enough to have killed the way JTR did.

Smudge, thanks for the link. It's a very concise summing up of the JTR case.
View Post


Not saying that any of these people are JTR, just thought of this...a killer's mind, they are 'normal' at face value. I bet if you were to walk up to JTR in the store, odds are telling me he would seem 'normal'. When they get in their, for lack of a better phrase, kill mode, their minds go to a different place than we can relate to. He could be one minute buying eggs in that store giving the cashier a compliment, go to the parking lot, see another woman that triggers his kill mode and then becomes something completely different than that guy buying eggs and complimenting the cashier.

In my old neigborhood there was a man that was a faithful church participant, raising children and married, well liked in the community the whole thing. He took his family to the woods and killed everyone of them but himself. My point is after all my rambling, you just never know.  


#30 Dire Wolf

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE(JeepersCreepersGStudy @ Nov 16 2004, 12:02 PM)

In my old neigborhood there was a man that was a faithful church participant, raising children and married, well liked in the community the whole thing. He took his family to the woods and killed everyone of them but himself. My point is after all my rambling, you just never know. 

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It's a good point. There are any number of way that people can do things like this and not be "disturbed" in the noticable sense of the word. There are mential disorders were people will litteraly feel no remorse, and not be affected at all by their actions.

For example: This is a story from one of my instructes. Their was  this guy who was fairly well know to the local police, he was notorice for violence. And anything could set him off, he beat a guy very badly for nothing but spilling a bit of beer on his boot. But what really show how warped he was, it when he was watching tv with one of his best friends, they got into a arguement, and the guy shot his best friend 7 times in the head(only reason he stopped was he ran out of ammo), then sat down and kept watching tv. When the police arrived he answered the door totally normal. They said he look like he could have just been getting a pizza, when they entered they found the body and arrested him, but he show absoultly no signs of carring about what he did.

So people can do very disturbing things without nessessarily having to show any visable signs.
-------------------------------------------------------
"The warrior who acts out of honour cannot fail. His duty is honour itself. Even his death – if it is honourable – is a great reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

#31 JeepersCreepers

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE(Dire Wolf @ Nov 16 2004, 12:30 PM)
It's a good point. There are any number of way that people can do things like this and not be "disturbed" in the noticable sense of the word. There are mential disorders were people will litteraly feel no remorse, and not be affected at all by their actions.

For example: This is a story from one of my instructes. Their was  this guy who was fairly well know to the local police, he was notorice for violence. And anything could set him off, he beat a guy very badly for nothing but spilling a bit of beer on his boot. But what really show how warped he was, it when he was watching tv with one of his best friends, they got into a arguement, and the guy shot his best friend 7 times in the head(only reason he stopped was he ran out of ammo), then sat down and kept watching tv. When the police arrived he answered the door totally normal. They said he look like he could have just been getting a pizza, when they entered they found the body and arrested him, but he show absoultly no signs of carring about what he did.

So people can do very disturbing things without nessessarily having to show any visable signs.
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THAT is wicked scary. My gawd...even after going into that 'blackout'  mindless rage, he still sat down next to his friends body!! That's scary. This gave me goosebumps.

#32 Dire Wolf

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 02:11 PM

QUOTE(JeepersCreepersGStudy @ Nov 16 2004, 01:09 PM)
THAT is wicked scary. My gawd...even after going into that 'blackout'  mindless rage, he still sat down next to his friends body!! That's scary. This gave me goosebumps.
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The thing that is kind of odd, is it's not totally a blackout rage. He knew exactly what he was doing(that's the sick part) he just didn't care. Essentually he had no remorse, it like steping on a ant to him. His friend got him made so the next logical step for him was to kill him.... luckly he is locked away for a very long time(pretty much indefinatly).

The kind of scary thing is there are other just like him out there that just don't have any human compasion, and have no problem making the leap from confortation to killing.

Edited by Dire Wolf, 16 November 2004 - 02:14 PM.

-------------------------------------------------------
"The warrior who acts out of honour cannot fail. His duty is honour itself. Even his death – if it is honourable – is a great reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

#33 JeepersCreepers

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE(Dire Wolf @ Nov 16 2004, 02:11 PM)
The thing that is kind of odd, is it's not totally a blackout rage. He knew exactly what he was doing(that's the sick part) he just didn't care. Essentually he had no remorse, it like steping on a ant to him. His friend got him made so the next logical step for him was to kill him.... luckly he is locked away for a very long time(pretty much indefinatly).

The kind of scary thing is there are other just like him out there that just don't have any human compasion, and have no problem making the leap from confortation to killing.
View Post


Your probably right about the blackout. He more than likely was aware. It's creepy to try and imagine how he thinks but you can really only get so far. My mind couldn't get to the point of nonchalantly killing another human being. To disregard life like it's so easy to come by  mellow.gif  I'm just thankful I wasn't his friend  huh.gif

#34 citrinecastle

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 04:43 PM

My opinions on who it could have been change every few months, lol. I always thought Sir William Gull was a good suspect, but in all truth, we'll probably never know who it was. Could have been someone passing through.

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#35 Smudge

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 04:53 PM

It is so frightening to think that any person amongst who you live around could be capable of doing such things. The sad reality is that there probably is, and until something tragic happens you will not be aware who this person is.

What amazes me a lot of the time, is when the police question suspects regarding a particular crime and the release them, or dismiss them  as suspects, not only maybe once , but twice. only to find further on into the investigation, that this person is guilty. So if they can dupe the police, what chance has Joe Bloggs got of detecting them.

It happened in the case of the Yorkshire Ripper here in the Uk... he was questioned or linked to the crimes on a number of occasions... yet was still out killing women.  This man led a perfectly normal life as a quite unassuming man, happily married and holding down a regular job. Yet killed 13 women (approx or estimated).

Edited by smudge, 22 November 2004 - 01:30 AM.


#36 Sunniva

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE(HelenaHandBaskettGStudy @ Nov 15 2004, 11:05 PM)
Thanks for getting back to me Smudge. I saw this on A&E about 2 months ago. those 2 were definately sick and twisted!!

And now back to our regularly scheduled topic! Sorry for hi-jacking your thread Sunniva!

View Post


Oh that is really fine! smile.gif I find these kind of serial killers facinating. It makes me physically ill too, but I always have to read about it...

It facinates me that the human mind can be so twisted. And it scares me that these people are just walking among us. That we cannot tell them from "good" people.

Jack the Ripper, Marc Dutroux (the Belgian serial killer, who was recently sent to prison - hooray!) or whoever...They are awful human beings, but yet facinating... blink.gif

#37 Lianachan

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 05:16 AM

News story about Jack the Ripper on the BBC's news pages today.
I apologise unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice. I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

#38 Lawgiver

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 06:40 PM

QUOTE
I guess with all the raving that people are doing about this book, I'm going to have to read it. I love Cornwell's books!



Jeeps, the book is totally laughable, not good evidence and not even entertaining. Sorry.

#39 Lawgiver

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 06:44 PM

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But it has failed to convince most of the leading Ripper authors, who accept that while it has not been proved to be a fabricated, it has also not been proved to be genuine.


This is a quote from the article that Lianachan [psted. (thanks for the article) The guy that confessed to be the forger had like a 5th or 6th grade education. It would be odd that he knew how to forge victorian documents, but not impossible.

#40 cryptid

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 01:34 AM

Has anyone read The Cases That Haunt Us by Roy Hazelwood? He was a profiler for the FBI and has written several good books on true crime/serial killers. This one has a very good section on JTR (and Lizzie Borden) that better explains my view on what type person the Ripper was.

Edited by cryptid, 27 November 2004 - 01:35 AM.