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Who Hates Orbs?


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#1 EmeraldVision

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 06:46 PM

hahaha of COURSE I can't edit the title! should be WHO hates orbs!
----

who here hates orbs as much as I do? I don't consider many of them to be real evidence. I don't think people are educated enough on them. It seems every other picture in the evidence forums is of a so called orb. I think we should campaign for better knowledge. And also everyone thinks an orb is a spirit when in fact real orbs are a manifestation of energy of course that COULD be a spirit but not always. I I so sick of seeing pictures everywhere that are like "OMGEEZ all these orbs were surrounding my cat" when in fact it was moisture or dirt... it's just irritating. And some of the show where they actually try to use dust orbs as evidence... it irks me. I want a full body apparition... not an orb!

Edited by EmeraldVision, 18 August 2008 - 06:49 PM.

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#2 lorddraven2000

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:27 PM

Not I!!! Some are explained away very easy but still there are those that are not and if we can not recreate it nor explain it than we have evidence. I actually like the little outcast known as the orb.

#3 Augustine

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 09:52 PM

There are so many natural factors (dust, pollen, moisture, glare, lens flare, etc) that can easily create "false positives" in photographs, and I agree that this can be very frustrating.  I do believe in the existence of energy orbs--I'm just not sure whether they're ghostly in nature or just a random mass of energy.  The difficulty is in differentiating these from the false positives.

So I don't necessarily hate orbs.  But I don't spend too much time looking for them, either, since 99% of photographic "orbs" can be debunked.




PS: I fixed your thread title for you.  smile.gif


#4 Tantric Kitten

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:46 PM

I don't think orbs are photographic evidence.  But... I've never seen photographic evidence.  I've seen some very compelling things on film... and even more compelling things on video (yes, I'm well aware that's film too but it moves and you can see more in context).  I've still never seen anything that I would look at in absence of any and all other input (such as intuitive feeling, background story, context, etc.) that I would say "oh, that's a picture of a ghost... yep for sure!"  That's what I consider to be the holy grail of paranormal research.  Once we've gotten that there will be another holy grail come along.

I have seen orbs that I believe to be manifestations of spirit.  I have seen LOTS and LOTS of orbs that were obviously not and LOTS AND LOTS and LOTS of orbs that could go either way but based on the known conditions are probably not.  That goes for all the other supposedly paranormal photographs I've seen.

Yes, it gets tiresome to go over and over the same thing repeatedly.  But we all started out somewhere with this whole paranormal thing and we all have to follow the learning curve.  Some people are more serious than others and will pursue knowledge more doggedly ... some people lean more towards the scientific side and some lean towards the spiritual side, as well.  But we all have that learning curve in common and probably 99% of us have posted something that is so exciting/scary/AMAZING that someone further along on the curve recognizes for a very commonplace, mundane thing.  And there was someone there to teach us and patiently explain that what we are posting is a very commonplace, mundane thing for reasons X, Y and Z.  So now that we're further along on the curve it's time to pass along knowledge and teach rather than criticize.
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#5 Caniswalensis

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:42 AM

QUOTE(lorddraven2000 @ Aug 18 2008, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if we can not recreate it nor explain it than we have evidence.


Not to be a jerk, but just because you can not explain it, does not mean that you can then say it is supernatural.

It could just be something normal you do not know about.  If you say: 'This is unexplained, therefore it is evidence of a spirit.' that is known as an 'aurgument to ignorance.' Please do not think that I am calling you ignorant.  I do not think that and would not say it.

An argument to ignorance , or 'argumentum ad ignorantiam' is a logical fallacy.  It is when someone claims something is true, because the opposite has not been proven true.

I do realize that it is impossible to prove something is supernatural, so I understand why you are using this methodology.  Right now, there is just nothing better.

Hope this is useful, Canis

#6 francis_rod

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:44 PM

Orbs are absolutely not evidence of the paranormal. We all know that orbs can be made by dust, moisture, or bugs in front of the camera, so why take ANY of them to be paranormal if we know the effect can be created normally? Why would a spirit or entity appear in exactly the same way a spec of dust does to a camera? I agree with OP here.

#7 Tantric Kitten

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:18 PM

QUOTE(francis_rod @ Aug 19 2008, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Orbs are absolutely not evidence of the paranormal. We all know that orbs can be made by dust, moisture, or bugs in front of the camera, so why take ANY of them to be paranormal if we know the effect can be created normally? Why would a spirit or entity appear in exactly the same way a spec of dust does to a camera? I agree with OP here.



The reason to take ANY of them as paranormal is because we're told they are.  

I've been told specifically by more than one person that certain family members will manifest orbs (whether or not it's actually a picture of the person's energy/soul is less certain) to show they are around at the time certain pictures are taken.  I hardly ever get orb photos in my candid life documentary shots but there are orbs prominently featured in at least one photo from every important occasion (birthdays, holidays, anniversaries, important achievements, etc.) for many years now.  That prominent orb is almost always RIGHT NEXT to the person who's important day it is.  I've also seen orbs hanging out in space before I take shots at important occasions.  On the rare occasions I post an orb shot here or there I have sensitives either respond in the thread or PM me with information relating to whatever person I think is behind whatever orb.  

This isn't objective proof but it's certainly an extremely strong circumstantial case (so it wouldn't win in criminal court but added up together and it'd probably win in civil court)... and good enough for me to believe but not good enough for me to say it's proof positive.  

But then, "apparition" photos aren't proof to me either.  I've seen time and time again where someone INSISTS they know what's going on and then on close examination by objective parties (and often even the photographer of the anomaly) the anomalous image is found to be firmly rooted in common and mundane physicality.
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#8 Joey

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:47 PM

I can't say I hate orbs seeing as how I haven't SEEN one yet.  th_sarcastic_blum.gif

It's always dust, or hair, or a camera flash.

I even begin to doubt if there is orbs.

They could be real . . . I've just yet to see one.

Edited by Numb, 19 August 2008 - 04:52 PM.

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#9 AbsoluteAngel

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:56 PM

QUOTE
This isn't objective proof but it's certainly an extremely strong circumstantial case (so it wouldn't win in criminal court but added up together and it'd probably win in civil court)... and good enough for me to believe but not good enough for me to say it's proof positive.


I like that one smile.gif

I am not an orb fan, and I have never personally seen an orb that I could not explain. But, that does not mean that energy and/or spirit orbs do not exist. I will agree though, I do tire of seeing an over posting of orb activity.
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#10 Tantric Kitten

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE(AbsoluteAngel @ Aug 19 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I like that one smile.gif

I am not an orb fan, and I have never personally seen an orb that I could not explain. But, that does not mean that energy and/or spirit orbs do not exist. I will agree though, I do tire of seeing an over posting of orb activity.



Well here, here's one of the circumstantial evidence ones I was talking about (I saw this one).

http://www.paranormalsoup.com/forums/index...ndpa+says+hello
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#11 lorddraven2000

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:07 PM

To me an orb has to be backed, for instance if I get an orb I want something to correlate, either a personal experience, cold spot or something else that can help authenticate this. Only then will I count them as credable evidence.

#12 francis_rod

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:47 PM

QUOTE(Tantric Kitten @ Aug 19 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The reason to take ANY of them as paranormal is because we're told they are.  

I've been told specifically by more than one person that certain family members will manifest orbs (whether or not it's actually a picture of the person's energy/soul is less certain) to show they are around at the time certain pictures are taken.  I hardly ever get orb photos in my candid life documentary shots but there are orbs prominently featured in at least one photo from every important occasion (birthdays, holidays, anniversaries, important achievements, etc.) for many years now.  That prominent orb is almost always RIGHT NEXT to the person who's important day it is.  I've also seen orbs hanging out in space before I take shots at important occasions.  On the rare occasions I post an orb shot here or there I have sensitives either respond in the thread or PM me with information relating to whatever person I think is behind whatever orb.  

This isn't objective proof but it's certainly an extremely strong circumstantial case (so it wouldn't win in criminal court but added up together and it'd probably win in civil court)... and good enough for me to believe but not good enough for me to say it's proof positive.  

But then, "apparition" photos aren't proof to me either.  I've seen time and time again where someone INSISTS they know what's going on and then on close examination by objective parties (and often even the photographer of the anomaly) the anomalous image is found to be firmly rooted in common and mundane physicality.



Personally, I've taken LOTS of just normal, every day, candid pictures with "orb"-looking things in them. I think it just SEEMS like there is an inordinate number of them in special occasion pictures because we are paying more attention to them. Personally, it's nowhere near good enough to get me to put alot of stock in orbs. The anecdotal and circumstantial evidence is simply not strong enough, I respect your right to have confidence in them though.


#13 EmeraldVision

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:09 PM

I think they show up everywhere in pictures it just seems they arent real orbs. they are always too light and there is no solidness to them and there is no shadow or movement... its hard for me to consider it something paranormal when there is not depth to these so called orbs... that really why i hate them i dont hate real orbs as much as ALL the fake ones.... but ike someone said earlier... we are all at a different stage of learning in the paranormal world... some people either really like orbs or some people really dont know how to spot a fake. It just tedious to sort through all the orb photos... because there are so many!!!
Listen and they shall explain their existence.

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#14 trin

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 09:07 PM

I learned to hate them as an art student when I'd have to touch the darn things up before showing my photo prints for crit.


I grew to really despise the darn things.  (Oh and you ain't seen orbs till you blow up your 35 mm to a 1ft x 2 ft print...or larger.... Ooooh ghod! then the ones you don't even SEE on the 4inx6in prints seem as big as yer darn HEAD. )

years later I'd see them on tv pointed out as "spirit orbs" and hurt myself laughing.



#15 angelicfruitcake80

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:02 AM

what about captures of orbs that are half behind something? If it was dust, dirt, moisture or whatever in front of the camera lense, then how can that have shadow on it or be only half seen.  Im adding a photo of what i mean.  It doesnt stand out heaps in the pic but it is half behind the guy in the grey shirt. I have also cropped it for privacy reasons, i dont think the people in the pic want their picture put on the internet smile.gif but for me, yeah i think that 'orbs' can be a number of explainable things, but i think to completely dismiss it is wrong also because we may be dismissing important evidence.

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#16 EmeraldVision

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 07:50 AM

well see  with that one i see it on a contrasting white and black backgrounds... the orb is white so you just aren't seeing the other half of it because it blends in with the white background. In my opinon at least!
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#17 trin

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 08:08 AM

QUOTE(angelicfruitcake80 @ Aug 20 2008, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what about captures of orbs that are half behind something? If it was dust, dirt, moisture or whatever in front of the camera lense, then how can that have shadow on it or be only half seen.  Im adding a photo of what i mean.  It doesnt stand out heaps in the pic but it is half behind the guy in the grey shirt. I have also cropped it for privacy reasons, i dont think the people in the pic want their picture put on the internet smile.gif but for me, yeah i think that 'orbs' can be a number of explainable things, but i think to completely dismiss it is wrong also because we may be dismissing important evidence.


It's clearly a flash photo... it's probably a dust particle between the two guys... it's often the reflection of the flash that makes them seem huge.  

If I see an orb that CASTS a shadow, or appears to be a light SOURCE in the photo, it becomes a bit more interesting. (but not necessarily paranormal.)

Dust particles can float on air currents and aren't necessarily as close as they appear, OR on the lens.  It could be several feet away as long as there is the flash or other bright light source to give them something to reflect.

Edited by trin, 20 August 2008 - 08:09 AM.


#18 Tantric Kitten

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 08:13 AM

QUOTE(francis_rod @ Aug 19 2008, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I've taken LOTS of just normal, every day, candid pictures with "orb"-looking things in them. I think it just SEEMS like there is an inordinate number of them in special occasion pictures because we are paying more attention to them. Personally, it's nowhere near good enough to get me to put alot of stock in orbs. The anecdotal and circumstantial evidence is simply not strong enough, I respect your right to have confidence in them though.


I'm more careful than the average person about scrutinizing my photos and avoiding environmental contaminants because I have extensive photographic training and experience.  I look closely at EVERYTHING.  I wasn't speaking for everyone when I made the comment about my candid shots versus my special occasion shots... only myself (and yeah, I know that's a terrible picture that I linked to... the only reason I even kept that particular one is that I saw the orb before I photographed it and that made it valuable to me).  For example... my siggy is generally a "candid, everyday shot" that I took myself... the one I've got currently certainly is.  It's from a road trip I took a couple weeks ago.

I absolutely agree that they're not evidence (except for circumstantial).  I don't agree that they should be quickly dismissed as nothing because most of them are nothing unless ALL "paranormal" photos are dismissed as nothing because there really has never been a single piece of photographic evidence that will stand on it's own.  Yes, most (almost all, really) orbs are environmental contaminants at some point in the photographic process.  Most (again, almost all, really) "apparition" photos are environmental contaminants or pixellization or pareidolia or slow shutter/fast person or a TV left on when no one remembers it being on... and on and on and on.  I also don't agree with the whole premise of the thread which is to complain about people who haven't moved "beyond" orbs and how everyone has to look at 80 bazillion stupid orb photos from people who haven't learned better yet.  We need to be collaborating, learning and teaching.  It's the only way we'll advance.  I know we have to let off steam once in a while but I'm sure all those people who post all those "I have an orb!  Is it someone visiting?!!!" threads have read this and felt a little less about themselves for having read their beliefs being trampled on.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. --Herm Albright

#19 trin

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 10:45 AM

Keep in mind that digital photography has more people taking MORe photos. (not having to pay for film or processing)  and the cameras are getting smaller and smaller... putting the flash closer to the lens.

20 years ago, no one was looking at dust orbs and thinking they were something paranormal.  It's been promoted as "a paranormal sign" through a couple of shows on TV.... and now "everyone knows" that orbs are ghostly....

sometimes what "everyone knows" is just wrong.  (like some of the ideas about people in the next valley over during the middle ages... )



#20 lordofvermin

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:42 PM

I agree, orbs are sketchy evidence, at the best of times. They can be caused by dust, pollen (very rarely bugs, as the shape is often distinct) migrating through the air and reflecting light back at the camera.

A possible experiment that could easily be put into practice could be to set up a gentle breeze in a room subject to filming and establish whether the movement of the air is able to affect the direction in which the orbs move across the visual range of a camera.

The only incident in which i could possibly consider the paranormality of the orb phenomenon is if more than one were concentrated around a specific area of activity, spiritual, not physical (as this may move dust, causing more....misinterpretations).

In response to pictures of orbs that are partially obscured by physical objects; dust is never an even shape, so only one side would reflect light directly back at the camera, this side may be uneven and give the impression that the orb has been obscured by an outside influence.

Im new on the forum and have lots of ideas and new theories
So dont hesitate to point stuff out to me

thanks

Edited by lordofvermin, 21 August 2008 - 12:54 PM.

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