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Sb-7 Spirit Box Discussion

Spirit Box SB-7 EVP Ghost Residual intelligent

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#41 Vlawde

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:31 PM

Here is a quote from the section about scanning times:   "

Many words did come out clearly from the recording, likely a strong radio broadcast signal. Also, several were two syllables showing that even a quick scan allows many full words to be heard. We were curious as to how multiple words or phrases have been reported from the use of these instruments so we also tested what we call the frequency overlap, where a broadcast station is strong enough, and the receiver is of the level of quality, to pick up the same broadcast on the adjoining frequencies both lower and higher on the dial.
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#42 siguie

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:42 PM

Honestly I don't understand  what or why he's testing this. The thing is literally just a radio scanner with the mute turned off {so you can hear the stations as they go by} and the scanner part is just made to never stop. So of course you can hear words from local broadcasts it's literally like using one of those old analog knob tuners and rolling through a frequency band :yes:

Anyways, if you disconnect the antenna and put the spirit box in a good RF shielding cage { a Faraday Cage is ideal but most people don't realize you need a working ground for it} then you wont get RF interference :no: or atleast so little that if you do hear words AND they appear to be answering your questions THEN you have compelling if not irrefutable evideince :yes:

I thought about making a shielding pouch like this youtube DIY one P-SB7 spirit box faraday cage ... it's a good RF shield but not really a faraday cage :no: BUT honestly just putting mine in a box lined with foil and I've never heard any words or anything close so I didn't see the point :no:
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#43 Vlawde

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 10:35 AM

The quote I copied and pasted was to specifically address the reason full words and syllables can be heard from broadcasts. At least to me, the main point of the study was to show how unreliable the device is in terms of how people interpret what they hear.

   Far as a Faraday cage, even if one was successful in building one that worked 100% , wouldn't that defeat the premise that spirits manipulate the radio broadcasts to communicate?  I did find this snippet about actually building a Faraday cage:  

Faraday cages that completely eliminate radio interference are very difficult to build. To do this you need to use a "perfect conductor" which only exist as superconductors. No one has ever, to my knowledge, built a Faraday cage from a superconductor so no one, to my knowledge, has ever built a perfectly shielded Faraday cage. What's more, Faraday cages are frequency dependent EM shields which means that there is some radiation, radio and otherwise, which get through. Now typically one builds a Faraday cage to shield one's work from the particular frequencies and wavelength that one is sensitive to, but there are plenty of frequencies and wavelengths that can penetrate such set-ups. The problem is that many of the EVP investigations -- including MacRae's -- look for very weak electronic signals which could very well be signals that penetrated a Faraday cage. Thus Davkal's syllogism is scientifically and physically invalid. The Faraday cage is a basic distraction from this article because there was never any indication that the actual interference transmissions that could be mistaken for EVP were blocked by said Faraday cages. To do this honestly, one should run a series of tests and indicate what level of radio transmission can penetrate the appartus. It will usually be a frequency-dependent function that can be easily determined by looking at the power received outside the cage and the power received inside the cage. Just saying "I built a Faraday" cage is therefore a meaningless statement -- the specifications are much more important than the existence of a device that can shield some EM radiation. --ScienceApologist 12:45, 16 March 2007
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#44 siguie

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 04:20 PM

Nothings is perfect :no: and a "perfect" faraday cage would also be a super cooled grounded sphere but that's neither here nor there the point in using one with a spirit box is to reduce any local broadcast signals down to the point they will not interfere with what you are doing. For the vast majority of local radio signals all you need to do is disconnect the antenna from the circuit. Once you do that only the strongest local broadcast will be discernible. To get rid of the las bit of pesky signals shield in whatever way works :yes:

I am not sure what the prevalent theory/belief of how these things work is BUT I thought the whole point was to create an audio broadcast system that 1) would be a power source electrical or white noise for your entity to draw on and 2) to give them a way to potentially communicate. The idea I had was that if they can produce EVPs on a recorder they can potentially produce the same audio on an amplifying system so you can hear them in real time.

As far as a faraday cage/RF shield defeating the premise ... honestly I thought the whole point was to remove all potentially unwanted signals and have your entity be the only thing able to go in and manipulate the audio. I mean seriously you can just turn a tunning knob on an old radio if you just want to hear random snippets of words to call entities but it seems kind of silly. On the other hand if you shield everything and then have a voice answering questions I think that's pretty good evidence.

Oh and I don't have any links to this but I recall some people just take any radio, tune it to a blank area, then put in a shielding environment and let the entities talk that way without the scanning. I think that's equally good :yes: Though potentially some frequencies may be easier/better but I dunno.


Anywho, that's my understanding ... I liked the concept so I made one. As far as just scanning for broadcast word or sound bytes and calling various combinations that come through conversations with an entity, I wont say it's impossible but I don't see anyway of ruling out pareidolia or just random word coincidences :no:

I don't mean to be knocking your posts or why that guy thinks he needs to show what seems pretty obvious but I think there are atleast two schools of thought on how to use these things 1) picking up random words from broadcasts is how entities communicate or 2) entities are their own station so you should shield everything else out.

Obviously I'm in group #2 so I believe if you get a communication going it's kind of in that EVP class of results and spirit boxes may be of use. I know many groups go with #1 and I just don't get why other than it's kinda fun.
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#45 Vlawde

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 08:14 PM

Cool! Have you gotten any results?   I don't feel you're knocking my posts BTW.  Sometimes I like to play devil's advocate and present different points of view, so I'm not trying to be arguementive or say you or anyone else is wrong.
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#46 siguie

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 12:00 AM

Sadly no, nothing at all not even a questionable sound that I could pareidoliate into something vaguely ominous :sigh:

Though to be fair without the occasional word blip these things are kind of boring and I mostly just leave it running in the background once in a while hoping something will suddenly come through or say "hi"  but so far not a thing.

On the plus side I've discovered that aluminum foil is a surprisingly good RF barrier and I can definitely see why crazy peoplez make hats out of it to prevent government mind readers from controling their thoughts :yes:
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#47 chapsparanormal

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:18 PM

We've experimented with this as any team should "play" with new methods. Normally in urban areas this creates nothing but headaches for me personally.
Not our teams cup of tea. Too much in the air with it, odds that something will be said that will concur with your investigation, is very high and might skew things. I don't allow it on my investigations any longer as a rule
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#48 capn b

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:09 PM

Used one in Gettysburg a couple of years back. I wasn't sold on it to be honest, just a noise maker and gets in the way of picking up EVP's. I've never put much stock in them just by watching on Ghost Adventures.  So it wasn't much of a disappointment
Just because you cant see it, doesn't mean it's not there

#49 CuriousGeorge

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 11:54 PM

Due to the way the standard spirit box works, I discount almost every one syllable 'answer' I think I hear. The machine spits out bits and pieces of radio broadcasts, so pareidolia (hearing what you expect to hear) is a big issue. There are a few exceptions, but for most of them, you can't discount that it is just a random word from a radio station.

I've yet to hear any sort of sentence or multi-word response from any standard radio ghost box. In fact, I've gotten better results from an AM radio tuned to a static spot on the band, with very, very faint voices of a broadcast barely audible. There wasn't any scanning going on, so there wasn't that garble of word pieces. I got three very clear responses to questions.

However, I have caught some interesting EVPs, inaudible during the session, from some standard ghost box recordings when I listened later.

#50 siguie

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 02:42 PM

CuriousGeorge yes that's a perfectly valid if not better alternative :yes: Though I still think disconnecting the antenna and using an RF shield of some type is in order even without scanning :yes:

I also want to clarify that while I do cringe at the way most people use these things and the one or two word responses that many consider "evidence" there is a point where if a response were sufficiently complex I would consider it valid :yes: Also there is no reason why you need to consider every random word "evidence". If nothing else the devices may provide ghostly energy or just attract spirits or perhaps the exercise itself would show spirits that you are trying to communicate and give them ideas.

I think that collecting data from any and all sources no matter how crazy or unlikely from psychic/mediums to iPhone apps is all worth doing as long as it doesn't detract from what else you may have going on. Honestly, no matter what "evidence" is obtained you are going to have to scrutinize it and decide for yourself if it is of any value. A large number of random words with no apparent significance is just easier to throw out. If you think there may be significance, like many words repeated or phrases that appear to have meaning then just consider it "suggestive data" and possibly explore in that direction but don't claim it is anything other than data by itself.

Anywho, that's how I see this stuff :)
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#51 chapsparanormal

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 03:51 PM

Great point. No matter what it is, no harm in trying alternative methods of research it is what we do with the evidence collected. Do we take it as solid or do we question it and put it to the test.

Which is why as investigators, we are providing an opinion, not proof.

I cringe when I hear the proof word used.
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#52 MichelleGStudy

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 04:02 PM

View Postchapsparanormal, on 10 January 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Great point. No matter what it is, no harm in trying alternative methods of research it is what we do with the evidence collected. Do we take it as solid or do we question it and put it to the test.

Which is why as investigators, we are providing an opinion, not proof.

I cringe when I hear the proof word used.
Agreed:)

#53 CuriousGeorge

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:28 PM

ghostlight, I agree that trying all sources is worthy. And what you hear should be carefully considered before casting it aside.
What bothers me is stuff like this: Member of the team is named "Joe". Spirit box spits out 'o' sound, everyone decides it said "Joe". Or name is Mike, spirit box spits out "Mi", everyone decides it said "Mike". Without a question being asked about names. TO me, that is wish fulfillment, not a valid response.

When I'm reviewing my recordings, I'll listen to things many times before I cast them out. Did I miss the "J" sound? or something else?

Heck, as much as I don't much care for the Echovox, I'm still going to shell out the money for it. Why? because it just might be doing what people claim. But until I use it myself for a while, how can I dismiss it as crud?

#54 EVP

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 07:42 AM

I'm all for exploring new avenues that might further research in this field but there needs to be some type of premise that reliably points towards credibility. Skeptics often bombard us with their logic and in many aspect they have a right to question unproven methodologies. Regardless of this being a pseudoscience and we can't apply the scientific theory by repeatable experimentation I have discovered on a number of occasions that some evidence does stand on it's own even if it can't be proven. BUT, we also need to understand the underlying principles of the obvious and how easily our brains can be fooled.

Unfortunately there isn't any substantial evidence that scanning radio waves is anything other than scanning of frequencies and when done on a quick basis can create a common EXPLAINABLE phenomena called pareidolia where the mind tries to define rational interpretation from chaos. We have already plenty of doubt in this field with plenty of red herrings. Isn't it a wasting of time if there isn't any evidence pointing to validity? Credible research can be obtained if we aim at implementing measures and controls while we explore. Introducing radio waves in my opinion, should be something we remove instead of inducing.

Vlawde is correct that a perfect Faraday cage is difficult to introduce but a fine example of unexplained phenomena can be found when Konstantin Raudive recorded over 200 voices in 12 minutes in 1964 at Pye Records recording studio in a proven "faraday cage". This was witnessed by a panel observing the phenomena to ensure that no trickery was introduced.

Just because someone says it's a valid method of research doesn't make it true. Make an effort discovering if a new research is viable first. Do your best to look at plausible natural explanation first. Honestly, I think the skeptics have reason to point and laugh because many use no methodology or credible exploration in their research.

I'm 100% with Dr. Barry Taff on SB's. It's a money maker to the sellers of the devices and a quick fix to those unwilling to pursue the act of patience. Research of anomalous audio is a patience game and evidence comes for most of us on an irregular basis. Scanning frequencies and interpreting pareidolia isn't research, it's a path with no credible discovery. For the record, I personally believe higher quality recorders, that offer decent shielding, is a step in the right direction. Low end recorders introduce artifact and false positives.

Interestingly, "research" is defined as, "attempt to find out in a systematically and scientific manner." Pause for thought isn't it? We have a finite time on this planet.....Let's use our time on a more fruitful basis.

Edited by evp, 12 January 2016 - 08:04 AM.


#55 siguie

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 03:30 PM

Technically there isn't "substantial evidence" of anything supernatural it's all just observed phenomena, lots of supposition and numerous ideas of how things might work and that's ok :yes:

Everyone should find out what works for them, get experience and report their data and procedures so others can decide for themselves if a thing or procedure has merit or is worth trying :yes:

Never worry about what others might say or think about your research :no: EVERYONE is an armchair researcher and as long as your data is honest and procedures are clear it's valuable. Even if it's later proven to be wrong it's well worth sharing because doing so helps others regardless. :yes:

FYI spirit boxes are only mind numbingly expensive because people are willing to shell out big bucks to some knucklehead who goes down to Radio Shack picks up a cheap radio and cuts one or two wires. Srsly it's not rocket science it's just cutting the mute wire on the scanning module.
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