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Are Poltergeists Real?


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#1 MacQdor

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 01:04 PM

http://whitecrowbook...archer_says_yes

".....But if you go for a fraud explanation, you have to account for every single one of the hundreds of incidents we witnessed, and no critic has attempted to do that. Easier to mutter something vague about ‘later, the girls confessed…’ as if that explained away the whole case. I often wonder just how much evidence you need to change people’s minds.”

Edited by MacQdor, 28 November 2017 - 01:05 PM.

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#2 EVP

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:10 PM

I won't turn this into a lengthy discussion nor have I witnessed poltergeist activity which would push me in another direction but I won't term it fraud so much as unproven by the scientific community. There are controls, measurements, repeatable experimentation with peer review to have it accepted as a valid phenomena. Needless to say, that hasn't happened nor will it likely with conventional experimentation as we know it. Again, I'm not arguing the point, merely stating an observation and I'll leave it at that.

#3 earthlydelitesGStudy

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:16 PM

Thanks EVP agree, it's always going to be up to debate but my personal opinion is that there are certainly cases of poltergeist activity well documented, but perhaps they aren't as prolific as some media outlets would make them out to be...
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#4 JIMOverSeer

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:55 PM

Oh yes... in my opinion, very real and in all their forms!

Poltergeist is German for "noisy ghost" and that's exactly what this type of spirit is: very noisy. A poltergeist also has the greatest ability to affect the world of the living.

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#5 EVP

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:40 AM

View PostearthlydelitesGStudy, on 28 November 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

Thanks EVP agree, it's always going to be up to debate but my personal opinion is that there are certainly cases of poltergeist activity well documented, but perhaps they aren't as prolific as some media outlets would make them out to be...

One of the more popular cases is the Enfield Poltergeist which involved a pair of girls. They both later admitted hoaxing some parts for the sake of additional attention. I adhere to the statement, "If you lie to me once, how can I tell when you are telling the truth." Without some verifiable peer review from validated witnesses how can one say with absolute assurance. I'm open to the concept and there are many anecdotal accounts but nothing recorded and peer reviewed. I realize the paranormal doesn't respond like a trained seal but unless I have some type of personal witnessing, I think it's careless to say you believe without doubt. What can I say, my heart beats like a skeptic until I see it with my own eyes or hear it with my own ears and become convinced from enough evidence and proof. Just because someone claims it to be true doesn't make it true.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan.

A further expansion to this I've read that really resonates is : While the idea that a sufficiently outlandish claim requires a lot more compelling evidence is quite intuitive, it can be quantified nicely with probability theory in a Bayesian framework. In short, sufficient evidence must be capable of raising a highly improbable claim to be highly probable - and the more improbable the evidence, the better.

Source

Seeing poltergeist activity once in my lifetime is definitely on my bucket list. One of my investigative partners has apparently witnessed a launching of a person as if they were thrown in a cemetery when they were being disrespectful. I believe he is telling the truth. I trust his judgement and do not believe he has a hidden agenda of any sort.

Yes I am my own worse falsehood, I claimed I would interject once in this thread. So much for that :)

Edited by EVP, 29 November 2017 - 12:57 AM.


#6 JIMOverSeer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:04 AM

Unfortunately for us, those who have gone through it and those currently going through it, will rarely be seeking publicity. I do hear from families living through an episode on occasion. But I haven't been in a position to investigate. But then again, my availability might be changing soon.

#7 EVP

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:47 AM

There's no shortage of investigated cases that were not necessarily motivated by publicity.

Here's just a small sample.
  • Glenuce Devil (1654-1656)
  • Drummer of Tedworth (1662)
  • Mackie poltergeist (1695)
  • Epworth Rectory (1716–1717)
  • Hinton Ampner (1764-1771)
  • Stockwell ghost (1772)
  • Sampford Peverell (1810-1811)
  • Bell Witch of Tennessee (1817–1872)
  • Bealings Bells (1834)
  • Angelique Cottin (ca. 1846)
  • Ballechin House (1876)
  • Great Amherst Mystery (1878–1879)
  • Caledonia Mills (1899-1922)
  • Gef the Talking Mongoose (1931)
  • Borley Rectory (1937) [20]
  • Thornton Heath poltergeist (1938)
  • Seaford poltergeist (1958)
  • Matthew Manning (1960s–1970s)[21]
  • The Black Monk of Pontefract (1960s–1970s)
  • Rosenheim Poltergeist [22][23]
  • The Enfield Poltergeist (1977)
  • The Thornton Road poltergeist of Birmingham (1981)
  • Tina Resch (1984)
  • The Canneto di Caronia fires poltergeist (2004–5)[24]
A good read can be found in Rosemary Ellen Guileys Book "The Encyclopedia of Ghosts & Spirits". She has plenty of accounts documented in that book. I own that one.
Look up Nandor Fador a pioneer of in Poltergeist activity. I've found this research interesting to say the least.

Edited by EVP, 29 November 2017 - 02:49 AM.


#8 JIMOverSeer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:21 AM

But like you say... nothing proven with those, right? At least not as far as the scientific community is concerned.

#9 MacQdor

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 08:13 AM

The Poltergeist is very real. Current experience notwithstanding.  The evidence, historical accounts, documented cases, reported cases the world over and the similar if not almost identical characteristics that have survived over time and by time I mean 1000's of years - makes me believe minus what I saw with my own eyes and what others saw with their own eyes - the Geist is very real.

Like all things in existence, the Geist doesn't need approval or a certificate from science to certify that it's real.  The "Geist" is real regardless.  Man's logic for whats real is severely flawed.    This unexplained phenomenon and let's just agree that the actions of a poltergeist are in fact unexplained.  There's a lot we don't know.  My definition of something being real is not me(specifically) seeing everything with my own eyes.   There's a lot of things I can't see that impact me - that is 100% real.  The list is endless.

One thing I've noticed about the paranormal when it comes to something being legit or not is people cling to a) false statements B) added statements c) over exaggeration of what really happened, oppose to explaining what really happened. Skeptics use those mishaps as the basis of their argument of the whole thing being false.  Some are. Some are not.  Take each case peace meal.

Example:
3 investigators walk into a house believed to be infested with a poltergeist.  They investigate as investigators often do. They spend a considerable amount of time at the location.  They execute some pretty good protocol.    They begin witnessing phenomena with their own eyes.  They document what they can document and before leaving interview a few of the current tenants.   They then leave.

A few weeks later, months maybe another team comes in or maybe the same team return.  The house occupants (children especially) fabricate some new activity.  What they've fabricated or over exaggerated to some extent made up does not destroy the fact that 2 months prior the 1st team saw a couch levitate.

Skeptics love combining two different things to make their case that the whole situation was false.   That's what the link above was trying to say.

no one's saying every Poltergeist case is real.  no one's saying that.   A lot of them are not real. A lot of them are real - NEWSFLASH - you can have both.


The data about "Geist" being real is irrefutable IMO.  Are they all real. Of course not. Tell me what discovery in nature is?
Put the confirmed hoaxes aside and you're still left with a lot of there, there.
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#10 Michali

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:42 AM

I lived in a house with poltergeist activity. I found out after living there about 10 years that it was known around town as the haunted house. The people that lived there before had gone through a really hateful divorce, their children came back some time after that and tried to burn the place down for some reason. The big burn mark was still on the dining room floor. My dad often heard cabinet doors slamming in the kitchen, my mom heard them to; but she thought it was my dad doing it because he couldn't find something to eat. My dad would just tell it to shut up and it would. My mom had nervous breakdowns 2 times a year while we lived there. Years later I heard the theory of poltergeist activity being caused by pubescent girls, which I was then... Still, I know it wasn't just that. Possibly that helps feed whatever energy or spirits are causing the disturbances. But I have always been sensitive to spirits, and felt extremely uneasy there. My niece also, who is/was a person that is not scared easily, always felt uncomfortable there too.

My experiences there, besides the extremely heavy, fearful feeling was one night hearing chains that sounded like walking, and another time when I was about 15 when I had just laid down to go to sleep; and saw 3 pairs (6 hands total) of very long, pale white, bony hands groping towards me from the side of the bed, as if they were coming from under the bed. Very frightening place!

Edited by Michali, 29 November 2017 - 10:44 AM.


#11 EVP

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:13 PM

View PostJim@GhostStudy, on 29 November 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

Unfortunately for us, those who have gone through it and those currently going through it, will rarely be seeking publicity.

That listing was in response to your comment which I felt was inaccurate. I also provided a source which is a necessary element in debate.

People often seek answer for phenomena they don't understand and want it to stop. Publicity is for those looking for attention IMO.

#12 EVP

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:20 PM

View PostMichali, on 29 November 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

...

Michali did anyone visually witness anything psychokinetic in nature or was it just heard?

The theory about prepubescent teens roots from Nandor Fador's study. He concluded that much, not all, is a human agent and very little is spirit based. Although, trapped negative energy I believe can feed these situations if they are in fact real.

I use the "in fact its real" meaning physical. I have experienced collective events with equipment recording and nothing and I mean nothing shows up on review. I don't think it's a slight calling it a hallucination or in its collective sense. That phenomena is every bit as real just not physical.

Edited by EVP, 29 November 2017 - 12:24 PM.


#13 MacQdor

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:20 PM

Michali

I'm curious about this big "burn mark" found on the floor?    Wood floor?   Carpet floor?

What was the pattern like?  Our house had weird burnt marks into the middle floor of every room.  Carpet guys never seen anything like it.  And yeah the previous tenant had a very, very, very, very heated separation-divorce.


Interesting.
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#14 JIMOverSeer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:48 PM

View PostEVP, on 29 November 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

That listing was in response to your comment which I felt was inaccurate. I also provided a source which is a necessary element in debate.

People often seek answer for phenomena they don't understand and want it to stop. Publicity is for those looking for attention IMO.

I was counting a haunting that can be proved. And the list you posted, you actually don't believe because they weren't scientifically proven.  :P ....... :)

So I'm not so sure if you should count them.  ;)

#15 Michali

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:53 PM

View PostMacQdor, on 29 November 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Michali

MacQdor:  


I don't think so. From what I remember it was just the noise. But my mother said she was thrown once. I can't say what frame of mind or emotional state she was in at that time though to validate it. Like I said, she had frequent break-downs while we lived there.
I had horrible nightmares about that house for years after moving out, always about being chased down by demons, until I finally got to go back. Not sure what that did, but...


I'm curious about this big "burn mark" found on the floor?    Wood floor?   Carpet floor?

What was the pattern like?  Our house had weird burnt marks into the middle floor of every room.  Carpet guys never seen anything like it.  And yeah the previous tenant had a very, very, very, very heated separation-divorce.

Interesting.


It was the dining area connected to the kitchen, linoleum flooring with concrete under it. Not sure why it never got fixed. We just had a rug over it. No particular pattern either. The walls in the kitchen would seep, supposedly from the cans of food that the couple had thrown at each other and broken on the wall. I'm not really sure. But no matter how we fixed the paint, it always came back through.

Edited by Michali, 29 November 2017 - 02:56 PM.


#16 MacQdor

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:05 PM

" But no matter how we fixed the paint, it always came back through".


The stuff bleeding through the paint I'm very familiar with.    Some outbreaks were a house is in turmoil, domestically have produced some startling phenomena.


It's almost like the anger of one person or two for that matter has taken a life of its own.  Come to life sort of speak.

Unbelievable.



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#17 EVP

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:16 PM

View PostJim@GhostStudy, on 29 November 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

I was counting a haunting that can be proved. And the list you posted, you actually don't believe because they weren't scientifically proven.  :P ....... :)

So I'm not so sure if you should count them.  ;)

Quote

Unfortunately for us, those who have gone through it and those currently going through it, will rarely be seeking publicity.

You seem to be commenting entirely on a different issue unrelated to your comment about publicity. My list entailed my rebuttal showing a list with a source. I'll drop it. I commented on "Is the sky blue?" and your answer is "It's tuesday."

Unfortunately no case can be proven concerning the paranormal with conventional means and a scientific approach. If you believe otherwise, that's your choice but yours is opinion and not factual. I honestly wish it could be proven Jim. It would relieve the thought that "I'm mad!"

Edited by EVP, 29 November 2017 - 03:19 PM.


#18 JIMOverSeer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:50 PM

EVP... I'm going to stop because you seem to be after me on every single comment I make. Please stop it.

#19 Michali

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:48 PM

View PostMacQdor, on 29 November 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Michali

I'm curious about this big "burn mark" found on the floor?    Wood floor?   Carpet floor?

What was the pattern like?  Our house had weird burnt marks into the middle floor of every room.  Carpet guys never seen anything like it.  And yeah the previous tenant had a very, very, very, very heated separation-divorce.


Interesting.

So, did the burn marks in your house have a pattern? Was the burn in the carpet or on wood or something under the carpet? And all in the very center of the room... ? That is very strange! Seances possibly?

#20 MacQdor

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

Michali


There were some inexplicable, unexplainable patterns on the carpet in every room just about.  The owner couldn't attest to how they got there.     When I finally tracked down the previous tenant she said one night they heard a lot of noise and woke up the next day and all these rooms had weird burnt patterns into the carpet.

We found this out in 2014(after speaking with her) By then the patterns had already been stitched out, due to be an eyesore early on.  I so wished I had kept one.     We had the carpet guy dispose of them - not knowing our house was haunted at the time.
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